M390 vs 20CV vs 204P – 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy Technology? So surprised how CTS-204P fails to be recognized as the M390 Equal. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Like you said, m390 and 204p (and also 20CV) are basically identical. I would recommend keeping your M4 blades with a thin coat of oil on them when not in use to prevent them from corroding. Who uses it: Benchmade, Zero Tolerance. With significant amounts of Chromium, Molybdenum, Vanadium, and Tungsten, these steels are 100% ready for action. An alternative to r/knives. I'm thinking that Carpenter makes more 204P than Bohler makes M390. I am told it is as tougher than s30v, but I have not broken nor chipped either steel so cannot say for sure. I have an M390 0652 and my serial number is 0957, aren't they stamped numerically? IMHO, M390 is a true super steel whilst s30v is simply a very good steel. That is if you can put aside personal bias. I doubt anyone can tell the difference between the two in regular use. It also has some pretty respectable toughness, and can take a good hard beating. Your email address will not be published. CTS-204P Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all essentially the same steel and sport a near identical composition. There are only a few hundred of the m390 0562s out there. CTS-204p is simply Carpenter's version of M390, and is US-made so many US knife manufacturers are switching to it because it's cheaper and more readily available here. M390 vs 20CV vs 204P – 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy Technology? The rapid cooling to produce powder rather than slow cooling to form an ingot leads to less segregation of alloy in the steel and a finer microstructure. They are both pretty much the same steel. Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels Carpenter CTS-204P, Latrobe DuraTech 20CV, Bohler-Uddeholm M390 Version 4.36 The m390 0562cf's are more expensive than the 204p version because they're more rare. I wrote about how powder metallurgy steel production works and the history of it in this article. While they have similar histories and composition, there are a few. The M390 knife steel is identical to the CPM 20CV or the CTS-204P in comparison of hardness (62HRC). March 30, 2020 Larrin. I'm people and I don't prefer M390 over CTS-204P. M390 exhibits excellent edge retention, corrosion resistance, and high level toughness. Carpenter CTS-204P is a powder metallurgy stainless steel. M390 vs 20CV vs 204P – 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy Technology? All about that third generation powdered metallurgy. The powder is then placed into a canister for “hot isostatic pressing” (HIP) where the steel is heated to high temperature under pressure to create a solid ingot. ), New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. The knife was originally in m390 but they switched to 204p because they were having problems getting m390. Come to Patreon if you want updates on testing as it is completed. Comparing: CPM S35VN vs. CPM 20CV. Source: Knife Steel Nerds. Press J to jump to the feed. In this case, there is a lower supply of M390. There are relatively few 0562cf made in M390, so they're valuable simply for the rarity/collectability. CPM-M4 is a bit of a different animal though, it's harder and tougher than m390, CPM-20CV or CTS-204P, but it's a lot less corrosion resistant than any of those three. My experience puts CTS-204P and the overly much recognized M390 as identical. Latrobe 20CV alone has proven sharper smoother subjectively almost Cruwear like cutting right out of the box. Edge retention testing is continuing, we have now tested 18 different steels, and four of those steels with multiple heat treatments. M390 was developed by Bohler in the late 1980s as a modification to K190, which in turn was a powder metallurgy version of D7 tool steel. KNIFE Magazine is an oversized, full color, glossy print publication — 50% larger than a standard magazine and dedicated to serving collectors, knifemakers and other enthusiasts. Is there a reason people prefer M390 over CTS-204P? It is highly wear resistant so it will hold an edge for a long time. Rather than pouring liquid steel into a mold and letting it slowly cool, the liquid is passed through a gas spray which rapidly solidifies small particles, creating a steel powder. Overall it’s a popular choice thanks to its high wear and corrosion resistance, it’s premium steel and because of that its a great pick for high end or limited-edition knives. The ingot has a very small level of porosity, which is eliminated in the forging and rolling process. KnifeMagazine.com is our online presence, offering news, events and other information to all visitors and a wealth of information to Premium Online Members including information on historical knife markings, knifemaker markings, about 500 magazine issues, and more! (Granted, heat treat might be a little different, but we're talking Benchmade and Spyderco, here, so they'll both be very good. Type and hit enter to display search result. CTS 204P is a premium stainless steel that offers high performance, and the closest equivalents I can think of would be the two following steels; M390 from @Bohler and the CPM 20CV from @Crucible, they are premium steels with close chemical composition and both contribute in making high-end knives (with a little differences in edge retention, hardness, and toughness). Worldwide Knifemaker Database and Directory, 5 from the Grinder – Michael West (Westknives), 2020 Black Friday/Cyber Monday Deal Thread, Making Known the Unknowns: Case Fixed Blade Patterns Revealed, 5 from the Grinder: John D Dennehy (Dan-D Knives), Tony Bose, legendary slipjoint maker, passes away at 74, Weekend Over Open Thread: Better late than never…. In my experience, it takes a keener edge, holds it much longer, and is not markedly more difficult to sharpen. Disadvantages: Relatively difficult to sharpen. There are only a few hundred of the m390 0562s out there. Thanks to Josh Warren and Alex K for becoming Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporters! All things pocket knives. It's a cutting beast, not a hard use product. According to some manufacturers and knife makers, the 20CV is the best of the three at holding an edge. The steel saw little use in knives until Latrobe steel copied M390 and sold it as 20CV, which then became popular with several production knife companies. Someone probably made a decent-sounding argument, and then everyone else just bought into it because it sounds good. They are more similar than they are different in terms of performance. Aug 21, 2017 - CTS 204P are the one kinds of best knife steel in knife industry.And the comprasion of cts 204p vs m390 steel.Deaits in which is the best supersteel. For example, the ZT0562CF is worth a lot more in M390. 20CV and M390 are shown in the table above for comparison purposes. I love my CTS204P Para2 which is the same alloy as M390 but made by a different foundry. The knife was originally in m390 but they switched to 204p because they were having problems getting m390. CTS-204P is American made, M390 is high quality and imported, accounting for the higher price? If you were comparing CPM-M4 to CPM-3V for such a tool the decision would be far more difficult. Unless of course, you would like to force the patina. M390 is a huge improvement over s30v. It's comparable to Bohler's M390 stainless steel or Carpenter's CTS-204P and, like those alloys, takes a mirrored finish well. M390. Your email address will not be published. I have a Benchmade Ritter Mini-Grip in M390 and a Spyderco Southard in CTS-204P, and as far as I can tell they are very similar. They are effectively the same steel. In the Comparison on cts 204p vs m390 steel that M390 is first and foremost an awesome edge retention steel. Many steels are high hardness (ZDP-189, M390) and many are high toughness (3V, INFI, and Vanadis 4 Extra) but no steel really matches M4 in its combination of the two. From specs, they seem to be almost exactly the same steel. Supply and demand. Really when you get into the higher end steels like this, there isn't enough of a difference to really like one over the other since the wear is going to be spread across so many tasks that they are almost indistinguishable. The carbides (white particles) are finer and more uniform in the powder metallurgy version. Required fields are marked *. Data Sheets: 20CV Data Sheet CTS-204P Data Sheet M390 … I'm sure this question has been answered somewhere, just wondering if anyone knew offhand :). I have learned more from Knife Steel Nerds than I have from any other site we share. Either that or im making a couple in CPM m4 or m390. Hey, at 20% chromium, it’s also really good at corrosion resistance! Advantages: Extremely high wear resistance and corrosion resistance. Or even between those two steels and steels like 154CM or VG-10 for that matter. I would say that the difference in edge retention and corrosion resistance between S90V and M390/204P/20CV is pretty insignificant. Edge retention testing is continuing, we have now tested 18 different steels, and four of those steels with multiple heat treatments. What it is: M390 stainless steel, a powder-metallurgy material produced by Bohler-Uddeholm, is widely regarded as a "super steel" for its properties and performance. Like you said, m390 and 204p (and also 20CV) are basically identical Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Below shows a comparison between CruWear (conventional) and CPM CruWear (powder metallurgy). The composition is almost identical to Bohler M390. Come to Patreon if you want updates on testing as it is completed. M390 has been around a bit longer (at least so it seems) and you have more knives in it. Edge retention testing is continuing, we have now tested 18 different steels, and four of those steels with multiple heat treatments. Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels Carpenter 20CP, Latrobe 20CV, Carpenter CTS-204P, Bohler-Uddeholm M390, Crucible S90V Version 4.36 20cv: Lower toughness, lower edge stability, higher wear resistance, likely higher corrosion resistance If 3v microchips when treated by Survive Knives then 20cv should be a relative nightmare. You won’t see much wear at all from the thing even through some pretty rough use. Toughness Test K390 vs Cruwear vs S110V. The m390 0562cf's are more expensive than the 204p version because they're more rare. Beyond that example, they're almost identical.